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Friday, April 10, 2015

All that You Slight, Everyone You Fight

So, mouse did something thoughtless and was forced to apologize to a friend. It hadn't been intentional, Daddy said it wasn't actionable (meaning worthy of punishment) but did give mouse a rather stern lecture about what she says. it was completely thoughtless, offhandedly grumpy and perhaps even rude for mouse to suggest someone's belief, without knowing this person subscribed to that belief system was stupid.

Still, it annoys mouse to no end what people will spout off as "truth" because someone else said this or that about the subject. We live in the age of computers and you're telling mouse that you don't think "science" has an opinion?! Still the whole thing infuriated mouse a little (maybe a lot). This person felt diminished by mouse saying something that she does actually know to be true. The science isn't confused about this and is pretty damn clear.

The apology offered had to be carefully worded, so that she wasn't back-peddling, but really hadn't meant to cause offense (how can the truth ever be offensive). Something along the lines "sorry the words chosen were offensive to you." To keep from going on about how stupid this person is and their belief, mouse literally bit her tongue to keep still.  This was not a religious argument.  This was about something else entirely that is becoming all too common in our country.  People simply don't do their own research before repeating what sounds right in their head.  This could apply to people who deny the holocaust.  

This ties in nicely with a question Tori posed to mouse.

Does it every cause conflict between you both, with you being an atheist and Omega being Jewish, i ask because we are the opposite here, Master is an outright atheist and im a Christian, go to church regularly, i have belief in my faith, and it does at times bring us into conflict.
So i was just curious how or if you do,,manage that mouse?

It takes a lot of fearless discussion.

All atheism is a disbelief in god(s), mouse would add to that supernatural causes as well. No, mouse doesn't hate God nor does she worry about religion too much.  There is precious little else all atheists agree on beyond that disbelief in a deity.  Within that there are people who identify as agnostic, anti-theist and even a few gnostic-atheists as well as the more common agnostic-atheist (which is technically sort of where mouse falls into).  

Omega does believe in god, but is more deistic. He really doesn't believe in a personal god who guides anything or has a specific plan for him. He does however believe all his life experience has made him the man he is. He does believe in evolution by natural selection, he does believe we, as a species, are part of the primates. Hairless bipedal monkeys. He's read hundreds of books (more than mouse couid imagine) on astrophysics, philosophy, mathematics, biology and religions. Omega said recently, "I am Jewish by birth and circumstance. I choose to believe in God, on mere faith. I believe the old testament text and other contemporaneous writings are metaphorical, not meant to be a historical or scientific text." 

Now, we all know that mouse enjoys ritual.  Judaism is more rife with ritual than many religions and is steeped in a rich cultural history that goes far beyond the biblical teachings. This is probably a good reason why it works so well with us -- you bust your ass for 6 days, get your house super clean on Friday and you get 25 hours to do absolutely NOTHING.  While mouse does the majority of the cooking, cleaning during that time leading up to shabbat (which is weekly) or another holiday, she doesn't participate (nor is she expected to participate) in prayers or attend a service or whatever unless she chooses to.  There are times mouse must go to a church or temple -- and she is still considered Roman Catholic.  This is our compromise.  When it's deeply important for mouse to attend something, scoff as she might, she does and smiles.  There are also times when Daddy must attend a service that isn't Jewish.   We all at times must show some deference to people in our lives and often that involves some sense of agreeing to disagree.  Not in a spiteful way or a way that is condescending or placating, but by being honest with yourself about what you believe.  It sounds really silly but looking up in a dictionary what the words "Fatih" and "Belief" can be very helpful to honestly avoid conflict.  This is true even when mouse did believe and would speak to people of other faiths, and think that their belief sounded really crazy. But going further when compared to her own religious belief that to their ears might sound just as nutty -- just as the many misconceptions people have and hold as truths about what Catholics believe, which are totally wrong.  

Having a clear understanding of what you believe is probably as important as why you believe it.  


  1. For the most part, I really couldn't care less what people believe… as long as they can demonstrate that they've actually thought about it -- both the "whats" and the "whys".
    It's the not thinking that gets to me...

  2. Thank you so much for posting this, mouse. Once again, I'm so glad you are able to discuss topics like this, as sooo many people are afraid to discuss it!

    Have a great weekend, you two! :)

  3. Thank you mouse

    I found this really interesting, glad you provided a link to what deistic meant lol

    I was surprised to hear that Judaism is more rife with rituals than other religions, i have thought Catholicism would have been, so learnt something new.

    I do find different religions interesting, the different interpretations, the rituals etc, its a subject (religion) that interest me, but the bossman doesnt approve of it being discussed in a general setting, but we have heated debates about it between ourselves.


  4. Sounds like you were speaking science to anti-vaxxers and someone thought it was rude.

    And yes, Judaism is probably more full of ritual than most other religions. Even Catholicism. After all, it has been around longer.


  5. Thank you for sharing this Mouse. I found this interesting to read. I agree with you about people taking on board what they hear and not doing their own research.



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